I'm Roger Sanchez
Published on June 21, 2004 By Roger Sanchez In Politics
Blair at it again...painting even mild eurosceptics as nationalists and lying to us all over again in the Great European Constitution debate. The reality is that a refferendum won't be for another 18 months at the minimum and the smart money is on it never happening at all.
Lets decipher all his crap and explain exactly why its crap:

"a very big education job to do"
-ie anybody who disagrees with the constitution is retarded

"the most successful way anyone has yet devised of managing relations between European countries whose national rivalries had, until 60 years ago, only ever been settled in a series of bloody conflicts"
-Yes because if the EU fell apart spain would invade portugal right away. The EU doesnt keep the peace democracy does. No democracy has ever invaded another democracy.

"This is going to be a fascinating political battle because it will be a battle between reality and myth."
-Which side are you on Tony?
Europhiles often pretend that eurosceptics focus on irrelevancies like the straight bannana issue (Brussels set certain degrees of bentness for bananas). When in reality the straight bannna issue highlights wht happens when unelected unnaccountable officials make laws (I mean could you see that law passing through the Commons). However even if the issue is irrelevant that doesn't mean other arguements against the EU should be rubbished. I'm not quite sure what other "myths" Tony is talking about. Maybe the "myth" that Brussels wastes a lot of our money. Or the "myth" that the UK economy wouldn`t lose 3 million jobs if we left the EU.

"narrow nationalism which no British Government has ever espoused or should ever espouse if it has the true interests of the British people at heart" - So all eurosceptics are are "narrow nationalists" Thats 31% of the population hes implying racist. Actually its more like 70% if you don't just include the people who want to leave the EU but the people who want to stay but don`t want more intergreation

Comments
on Jun 21, 2004
I think... We shoudn't talk about Blair and his Eurosceptic mind... The debate about the sucessor of Prodi... And Brits who try to suggest their Members... It's unreal... They still with Pounds...They still out of Schangen Zone... I think they could be simply out of Europe... Uk makes the EU heavier.
on Jun 22, 2004
Right don`t quite know what your on about seeing as your not that good at English. No Blair is not a eurosceptic he'd take us into all those things if he could but the British people won't let him. Yes, I'd rather the UK left the EU. However I still don't think its wise for other countries to intergrate. I mean what happens when you disagree?
Most importantly however because the EU is at the moment is so undemocratic theres a real risk of some sort of war breaking out.
on Jun 22, 2004
Uk makes the EU heavier.


The EU cannot survive without Britain, our economy is too strong to be passed over by the megalomaniac Europeans.
on Jun 22, 2004
To right Peter if that even was what Maxime meant. We have to remember that the EU needs us more than we need it. So its silly to say that we need to go along with all the political arrangements to get the trade ones.
on Jun 22, 2004
Sorry Sir Peter Maxell but your economy fragilise Tourism in UK and around Europe... The strongest economy and the sieges are in Germany and Belgium, mostly. Britain don't participate to make growing the EU finance. And the one of most Conservatives in Europe are Brits. Everyone taught like Germany and France did... Except Spain for respect and Money...And Previlieged Bonus... But...Things changed with the socialist Zapatero. Countries like Poland and Hungary... Bah it was purely for Money...And having Military Ressources. So... To come Back... Uk makes the European Breachs confused... And Because they took the side of US ( the big shot) bah... Countries who have took the others sides...Just receive bullshit. And for Sanchez... Blair is an eurosceptic... He never dealt with EU with Schengen Zone Etc, about Euro... And he don't really care about Europe's health. His Sceptism starts with these minds.


(Sorry for English, Im French-Canadian)
on Jun 22, 2004
And... Sir Peter You are too Emotive... Britain is like the others... And Uk is really not superior... The Speechs of Colonialism are out to date... Like the speechs for the powerful US... These speechs will be out to date soon.

Each Empires crash (Persians, Mesopotamians,Pharaonic Egypt,Ancient Greece,Roman Empire,Frenchs,English,Germans,USSR)
on Jun 23, 2004
Of course the EU could survive without Britian. Why wouldn't it. Britian is already falling behind France, which is likely to surpass it this year in GDP. Britian is on the slide, and total lack of committment to Europe is only costing it more. I've already seen millions in lost deals to my company because of this issue and we expect any definite anti EU decision to have major negative economic repercussions.

Note that I am talking of the EU here and not the Euro. Many English people I talk to completly fail to grasp the difference. Indeed most English peopel I talk to completely fail to even grasp what the EU constitution is all about. Let's be honest here, English peopel have no concept of what they are goiing to be asked to vote on. Politicians (on both sides) are completely failing to provide clear precise data on what the constitution means, what has changed since previous treaties, and what alternatives they would like to see. Indeed it is so bad that watching the MPs debate the constitution on Monday was farcical. Even the MPs had no idea what they were talking about.

- The EU constitution is designed to do 2 things
a) bring together all previous EU treaties (and a few EU laws) into a single document
to simplify the decision making structure to allow for an enlarged EU to actually work

Now, no one can really complain about topic (a), as none of it is new (Though I did see an MP state the the EU treaty made the European Courts supreme, as if he had been unaware that this has been a fact for the past decade! Such idiots should not be allowed in politics). All of this was approved in previous treaties.

Which leads to the major contensious issue, (. When the EU expanded from 15 to 25 members it had an antiquated decision making structure that required every country to agree before anything could get done. This complete agreement was required on EVERYTHING. So if even 1 country didn't like something or just felt like flexing it's muscles, agreements couldn't occur. While total agreement is important on many issues, it's not important on ALL issues, or even a majority of issues. Should Greece have to agree on North sea fishing quotas? Should the UK have to agree on the language displayed on a French/Italian train? Obviously not. The new structure requires majorities (of population and countries) for many decisions, but leaves the big decisions as they were.

So where is the problem?

Well British people don't like giving up the right to decide on the language on a French/Italian train. They believe that no decision should ever be taken without their agreement, irrespective of what that decision is. They point to 43 seperate issues on which they now no longer have a veto. Now even the most rabid eurosceptics will admit that the majority of those issues are EU related anyway and in no way impinge on British soveignty, but that still leaves about 12 issues that they would prefer to have vetos on. These include important topics like fishing quotas and farming subsidies, but if every country kept a veto these could never be agreed upon.

So I look forward to seeing an honest debate of what the EU constitution does for Britian. I look forward to seeing politicians producing facts, and not just inflaming passions. The funniest point is that those that want Britian to leave the EU, need to actually support the constitution. Without the new EU constitution there is no clear process for Britian to leave. Quite funny really!

Paul.
on Jun 26, 2004
Paul you completely forgot
C) Majorly extend EU powers

Nobody would complain about A) except that most people want some of these powers back and the constitution sneakily extends these powers.
Yes you are right in saying that it "simplifys decision making" ie it gets rid of our veto but there was plenty of QMV (qualified majority voting) going on right now and this constitution simply extends this. The veto was NOT on EVERYTHING.
I have no idea why an anti EU constittution vote would damage Britain economically as the constitution has little to do with economics and trade but all to do with what the Belgium Prime Minister called being a "capstone to a federal state". Its not as if voting against the constitution would be a vote to leave the EU they couldn`t kick us out if they wanted to. Also I don`t see how the anti EU "vibe" in this country can affect your buisness as it doesn`t affect how we deal with it at all. In fact I suspect your making up this buissness to start with.

I do agree with you that many British people do not understand what the constitution is about. For example at least 10% of people don't want to extend the EUs powers yet plan to vote for the constitution. I also agree with Maxime St-Arnault that we shouldn`t get emotional about this. I am not a British patriot when I say these things I simply beleive in Wilsons "self - determinastion"
on Jun 28, 2004
Roger,
there are indeed a number of issues which the constitution now removes the veto in, but these are almost totally in EU and not UK matters. To answer point C specifically,

- In return for loosing the ability to veto EU decisions IN AREAS THE UK HAS ALREADY GRANTED IT DECISION MAKING POWERS, the UK gains far more power to influence and determine the EU decision. It is vitally important to note that there has been no extension at all in the areas which the EU has a say in, only in the fact that a qualified majority is now enough to determine actions in some of these areas. As one of the largest countries in the EU it actually works in the UK's favour and grants it far more power compared to smaller countries. So no, there are no majorly new EU powers, just a removal of an outright block on some of the powers it already has, but more say in the decisions.

Voting against an EU constitution should not affect Britians economy as it doesn't actually change anything. But it will do because of the perceived anti EU stance the British people would be making. The big issue for the UK is that companies do not like uncertainty when investing money and investing money in a location which you fear may leave the EU is a financial risk. Many companies in Britian also supply or support European customers. Doing that work in a country with trade barriers to Europe is more expensive than locating those factories or people on the continent in the first place. A number of international companies have already highlighted the fact that not joining the Euro makes Britian less competitive than the rest of Europe. Imagine how much less competitive the UK becomes if laws are no longer synchronised and trade tariffs got reintroduced. These cannot happen at the moment, but with a strong UKIP showing in elections it is a risk if the UK leaves the EU. Not very likely to happen but Eurosceptism is way out of control in the UK.

Paul.
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